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 Yes or No to the EU

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willowsend
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PostSubject: Yes or No to the EU   Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here is a debate for all us members to voice our opinions. It doesn't matter whether you live in the UK, Bulgaria or even Timbuctoo It should make some interesting reading, and the first thing I would like to ask is "what are the implications involved to UK citizens who live in the UK and have property in Bulgaria"



EU Membership: Reasons For And Against Leaving


There are pros and cons of Britain's membership in the EU. look at some key arguments on both sides of the debate.

There are strong arguments for and against Britain's EU membership

David Cameron has started negotiating a new deal with European Union partners ahead of a referendum on the UK's membership in the bloc.


Here are five of the reasons for and against Britain's membership of the EU.

Reasons To Stay

:: Millions of jobs are linked to our EU membership

As far back as the year 2000, it has been claimed that three million jobs rely directly on our membership of the European Union. The figure was even cited by Nick Clegg during his time as Deputy Prime Minister.

An analysis by Full Fact found that millions of jobs are linked to the EU, but said there is no evidence to show how many would be in jeopardy if we left.

:: Some of Britain's biggest trading partners are in the EU

Some of Britain's largest trading partners - including France and Germany - are in the EU.

More than 50% of our exports go to EU countries, and our membership allows us to have a say over how trading rules are drawn up.

:: It's easier than ever for us to work and travel abroad

Around 1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU, and having membership makes movement around the continent incredibly easy. Driving licences issued in the UK are valid in all EU countries.

:: Crime fighting

The European Arrest Warrant cuts out the need for long and complicated extradition procedures and allows criminals to be brought to justice across the EU.

:: Influence in the world

The EU is the world's biggest market and plays a big role in world trade, climate change issues, development projects and more.

It has the clout to take on multinationals such as Google and Microsoft. At the moment Britain plays a key role in the EU, and leaving would see us forgo that.

Reasons To Leave


:: Border control back in our hands

The flip side of the freedom of work and travel for UK citizens is that people from other EU countries are free to travel to and live in Britain.

UKIP leader Nigel Farage says any attempt by the Government to control immigration into the UK is futile as long as we are in the EU.

:: We could make a large membership fee saving

Like most clubs, the EU charges a membership fee, and it has been claimed that the cost is around £55m per day.

Analysis by Full Fact estimates the figure is closer to £24m per day when rebates and other receipts are taken into account.

:: Institutions are seen as lacking democracy

The European Parliament is directly elected, although the powerful Commission which proposes legislation is not.

Because many of these laws supersede legislation made by individual states' parliaments, some see the system as undemocratic.

:: Other countries successfully go it alone

Many Eurosceptics look to rich Norway as a country which trades with the EU without being in it. It also controls its own agriculture and keeps its fish, rather than being bound by EU quotas.

:: Get rid of any threat to Britain's military freedom

There is a push within the ranks of the EU's leaders for it to have its own army.

The president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, said earlier this year that it would help show Russia the EU was serious about defending member values.

In the past the British Government has been forced to block moves to create EU-controlled military forces
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varnagirl
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:01 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I, personally don't know what I want because I don't understand all the pro's and con's and know enough about the whole situation, also the information available depends on which news paper you read

Thats how I feel...but I am concerned re living in Bg if Uk votes out...pure selfish on my part....I did prefere it here before BG joined the EU ...but now got used to easier processes for foreigners It would be a pain in the arse to have to go back to all the old system
mind you it may have a plus that we wont be able to stay here...then I will be able go home affordable or not..... s
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willowsend
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:44 am

We have recently been on holiday in Gran Canaria, we got off the plane walked straight through the airport and on to the waiting transfer coach. No border controls, nothing
Arrived back in Birmingham, what a contrast, it took 30 minutes of queuing to border control. When we got to the border control desk I asked, if we come out of the EU will it have any effect on what happens here, his comment was, it wont make any difference this end but it might make a difference going the other way to EU countries
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:20 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
We have recently been on holiday in Gran Canaria, we got off the plane walked straight through the airport and on to the waiting transfer coach. No border controls, nothing
Arrived back in Birmingham, what a contrast, it took 30 minutes of queuing to border control. When we got to the border control desk I asked, if we come out of the EU will it have any effect on what happens here, his comment was, it wont make any difference this end but it might make a difference going the other way to EU countries  

I'm sure he was right but its a small price to pay for a safer journey and a safer Europe
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willowsend
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PostSubject: 3 Day's to go   Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:38 am

3 Day's to go to decide IN or OUT
Should I vote because like many others I don't know what to do or which way to go
If we vote OUT, that's it we can never get back in again if it was the wrong decision
Is the devil you know better than the devil you don't know
What or who should we believe
I have read so many news paper articles that I am completely confused
I've just had a holiday in Scotland and I get the impression that the majority of Scots want to stay in. If it is an OUT vote they say they will hold another referendum to have independence from England
If Britain is out of the EU what are the implications involved for ex-pats and their properties
Will visa's have to be obtained and does that also mean work permits if Britain vote's OUT
Let's assume we are out and there is a General Election the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage scare me with tactics
Help, can any member with a bit of savvy advise me which way to vote, because I just don't know, I haven't got that gut feeling which drives me to even bother voting
Looking forward to some constructive advise T
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:17 am

Hi Willowsend.

IMHO, I do not think you are alone, and I doubt there is any simple answer to your concerns, personally I do not trust any of the politicians or reports, they seem to be able to get the results they want, no matter what we say?? but that is ME, so I now have the attitude, 'what will be will be' and will deal with whatever happens, when it happens.

Quote :
Help, can any member with a bit of savvy advise me which way to vote, because I just don't know, I haven't got that gut feeling which drives me to even bother voting

If you are already confused on which way to go, I feel you may be even more confused if you get replies telling you which way to vote?? you should do what you think or what your 'GUT' tells you, not what others tell you, but for info, in my case, I am not even bothering.

Quote :
If Britain is out of the EU what are the implications involved for ex-pats and their properties

From the British Ambassador.
In the event of the UK leaving the EU, there would be a 2 year period of exit negotiations with all member states before any final decisions or legal reforms would be made. This can be extended if no final resolution is reached.

If I am lucky enough to be around then, I will decide then, at the moment, I Live for today, enjoy what I have, and will deal with tomorrow when it comes


Maybe this will help La

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Bill
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willowsend
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:53 am

T Bill for taking the time to reply
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bulgariabill
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:57 pm

Hi Willowsend
Your welcome, and just to add to the debate !!!!

Bulgarian PM seems to know ???

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

as shall we all soon

Bill
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:00 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Hi Willowsend
Your welcome, and just to add to the debate !!!!

Bulgarian PM seems to know ???

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

as shall we all soon

Bill

On a personal note, many of the older members on this forum may remember that I had my house stolen nine years ago and it took me over a year and through five Dobrich and Sofia courts to get it back, and with the help of the European Union. At that time Fiona Flint (Labour) was the UK's representative in the EU parliament and she fought our corner and I am convinced her involvement carried some weight in the courts which is more than the Bulgarian Prosecutors did. so I will vote to Remain in.
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:37 pm

So after months of campaigning, debating we have finally come to Referendum day.... Three major Broadcasters will be airing Live result shows....

SKY NEWS
BBC1
ITV

Sky News will kick off at 9.30 with Adam Boulton heading up a team of over 50 presenters located across the UK.

BBC will start at 9.55 with Dimber anchoring the Coverage helped by Jeremy Vine and his fancy graphics. The BBC will also have Kamal Ahmed and Laura Kunessberg

Finally when the polls close at 10pm.....

ITV will begin their coverage with Tom Brady anchoring the Coverage. Alongside him will be former BBC Stalwarts Robert Peston and Allegra Stewart.


Now Sky saying

Leave 52%
Remain 48%
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:46 pm

I fear if we remain, and then in the next few years others EU countries have referendums and decide to leave, we'll end up paying even more to prop up the EU.
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:54 pm

I Think a big part of the EU problem - well for me anyway, is that I had no idea how costly it was, how big their Brussels HQ was, I had no idea of simply how much power and control they had over everything. I think thats the same for most people - we just knew that we were in the EU. My friend said that this referendum, if its done nothing else has made people aware of what it does and just how much the whole thing costs. Thats what I have found so shocking. Ok, I dont know much about politics, I just thought that our MEPs and occasionally the Prime minister went to Brussels to vote and chat every now and again and silly rules would pop up in the media from time to time.

So when I found out what its really like and how many countries are failing, eventhough they are supposed to be well looked after by the EU, I questioned it. I looked more deeply into it and didnt like what I saw at all. Look at the state of the Southern European countries and their mass unemployment.

However, if the EU was actually a success, we wouldnt need or want a referendum, we'd be singing its praises and no one is - not even the remains. Everyone agrees it needs to change, so why hasnt it? Its not a success and for 40 years - well certainly since the Maastricht treaty. Maybe now we've seen inside its "workings" things may?? Cameron may go storming in there on Monday morning and insist......

Or maybe the whole sorry mess will now sink and we can look to the future of the global economy??

Either way, I dont think this whole sorry fiasco is going to end well - too much nastiness has gone on!
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:07 pm

I have a feeling Scotland will vote to leave. The media have used the SNP's stance on the E.U to threaten another independence referendum. I think it's then been made out that the people are heavily in favour of staying. I don't believe that but that's just because about 90% of my friends, family and colleague's will be voting leave

The SNP do not speak for Scotland on the E.U. It will be the same vote % or close in every country. Scotland only being 10% of the population after all
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:14 pm

Strong turnout reported across the Labour heartlands apparently.
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:28 pm

Is the EU referendum legally binding?
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Andy
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PostSubject: Re: Yes or No to the EU   Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:39 pm

The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK.


If Cameron ignores a vote for Brexit, perhaps a narrow one, he will have divided the country and his party on false pretences. Heads I win tails, you lose doesn't work in a democracy. The question will not even be posed if the outcome is in favour of Remain which is evidence enough of its dishonesty. It's asked only because the political and media elites are incredulous at the possibility that power can been taken from their hands by a popular vote. Any Oxford PPE grad will be able to construct what seems to the political class to be a plausible reason for the outcome to be ignored. It's what rhetoricians have done since time immemorial. Whatever the strict constitutional status of the referendum, to overturn its outcome would be a blatant usurpation that would put Cameron in the same league as the wretched Maduro. Cameron is a man whom I admittedly despise but I cannot believe that he would try to stage what would in effect be a coup without precedent in modern British politics. Even Major and Blair recognised there were limits to what they could foist on Britain in the name of Europe. To use parliament's power to overturn the referendum decision would strike a fatal blow at its legitimacy and credibility and to that of the ballot box. Even Europe isn't worth that no matter how strongly European one may be.

Just in case anyone is in a forgiving mood to stay Angry

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

lndesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland's AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental cleanup paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their lossmaking aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK.

Not detailed is our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

Not mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
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